Basic concepts and physics

[Fenris]

As many meleeists will readily admit, melee is alot like chess, in that respect it is sometimes hard to realize the connection but it is indeed there. Scientific laws such as inertia, momentum, concussive force, proximity, and leverage all play a part in combat as well and it is up to understand when to use these concepts and what they are capable of. As an example if an opponent throws a right hook, you simply slap the hand along its trajectory adding extra momentum and forcing him forward depending on the situation. It stands to reason with his arm battered aside that particular side of his body would be open, it is then up to you to perform the safest and critical maneuver you can think of. (Such as a round house kick.) since it will be hard for an opponent to reach around his body in time to block. However nothing is ever foolproof and body movement can easily thwart such counters unless they are released during specific situations. Alot of it is common sense really, attack your opponent where he is most vulnerable while guarding yourself at the same time, these concepts stand true for weapons, and unarmed combat and understanding them can dramatically increase your proficiency in both. Another concept is the "Straight line" most attacks such as slashes or conventional punches travel along a curve, however a straight punch can literally cut an enemy off even if it is released slightly afterward due to the Linear approach, and strike an enemy before his punch even lands. Anyone feel free to add on, I know this post is a little vague.

[baane]

While this post is appreciated in itself, Wolfprince, seeing it come from you is queer. Unless you have changed significantly from the last time we fought, I will openly state that you should be the last person to teach any form of realistic physics in a melee fight. All the antimatter-antienergy-unbreakable sword stuff aside you certainly displayed a lack of understanding in how the body works when we fought.

Albeit that was a good long while ago.

[Fenris]

Well baane what you didnt seem to understand the last time we fought, was that when I dodged that "hip toss" it was only due to the fact that I had tried to interupt it, and was meant to only be dodged if my initial interuption had been successful. You were in such a hurry to call me a n00b you just assumed that I was like "OMG I DODGED IT!!1" as for the unbreakable sword? Well considering you had an automatic rifle, and strength wise you were capable of going toe to toe with a supersaiyan I had to even out the field somewhat. All in all it was the fact that it was a mismatch to begin with powerwise that caused that particular stink. However if you want to ask if I understand physical movement and physical science just ask sheng. Though granted I have learned alot since that last fight.

[baane]

Your attempted interrupt to a hip-toss, a move wherein the executor's hip acts as a fulcrum, was that you 'planted your feet.' Planting the soles of your feet on the ground is not a logical way to prevent yourself from being pulled over a fulcrum. I'm pretty accepting of dodges and evasions, but that was just silly and, unless you have improved since then, I find the fact that you are attempting to make a thread preaching the basics of physics in the context of a melee confrontation laughable.

Jason Baane didn't deploy the rifle until the very end (where you ignored it.) In fact, Fenris was dual wielding antimater (and unbreakable) swords from the get-go, when for most of the fight Baane was using naught but his un-aided fists. My characters' strength is in no way comparable to that of a super-saiyan. It was not then, and it especially is not now considering that my character gets progressively weaker and weaker for the sake of role-play.

So, Wolfprince, how would you prevent a hip-toss assuming you were in such a possition these days? I'm curious.

[Fenris]

Admittedly a hiptoss is hard to defend against, last time I misunderstood which I admit as well, however that was why my dodge was an "attempt" and not an "Auto" as you had assumed. However in order to tell you how I would try to avoid one I will go into the move itself.

A hiptoss as a counter consists of inverting your arm over your opponents and pinching the elbow with your forearm, while putting your other arm under your opponents underarm and placing your hand along their back or neck, and or grabbing the opposing wrist as you are chest to chest. You apply pressure to your opponents elbow and then pivot into your opponent while stepping forward with your back leg, using the leverage you have over their arms to force them over your body as you pivot.

Due to the close proximity of the counter, and the fact that both arms must be locked by your opponents the simplest way i can think of too avoid it is too simply not get your fuckin arms caught, however it also might be possible to throw the edge of your shoulder into your opponents chest using the shoulder that would not be under your opponents inverted arm cause that would just break your elbow. However that is only possible during the first stage.

The second stage consists of your opponents pivoting into you, this is done the moment he steps forward with his back foot he would be doing a bit of a sweeping motion to ease the transistion. One way to avoid it at this stage is too simply "limp" your leg, letting the force carry only that particular leg upward. It will be a sacrafice towards balance, but you will better off than you would be otherwise, and might give you time to counter. This action would cause all the force your opponent had meant to use to throw you to simply waste away into your "limp" leg.

Another way and this is more tricky, is too allow the slight "sweeping" motion (Yes baane i am aware the hiptoss is not a sweep, i am just using the simplest term.) to get into your leg THEN lift it up towards your other using your calf to lock the offending leg in place and then put all your weight into throwing yourself back down. If your lucky you will land in sort of a half indian style posistion with your opponents leg stuck under you, or if you want to be fancy you could try and pivot in the opposing direction (if your arm isnt caught) and seriously damage his leg most likely the shin, ankle, or knee. You could also take advantage of his shift in balance and try to shift your weight into his still grounded leg though you will have to time it right since your balance will be just as compromised.

It also might be possible to stick your leg in between your opponents right before he pivots in order to cut the move off, but this is almost impossible, (Once the opponent completes his pivot your legs are literally off the ground and too close to counter.) it also might be possible to kick them in the nuts, but this can only be done in the first stage, a little bit after the 2nd stage of the attack begins there is pretty much nothing you can do, and the most possible counters can only be done during that short offensive transistion that your opponent uses to initiate the end-result of the counter.

[The Librarian]

Dead weight is good if you react in time but it puts you at a momentary loss. Of course your opponent is at a momentary loss as well so it doesn't always hurt.

[Styles]

On the contrary, dead weight won't matter. Leverage is leverage, if the shiz is done right then it's done right, and the opponent is going over. Dead weight just gets you flung loosely around. (my instructor has shown me the...very painful difference multiple times)

I'll skip the critique of Wolf's input of the..."hip-toss" and move straight to this.

The Ichii-Geki (no I'm not sure if I spelled that right) would be the proper and ultimately most effective defense against any variation of a hiptoss; properly attempted to be executed, or otherwise. I can explain the basic technique, if anyone likes, but you'll have to keep in mind this comes from an art known as The Bujinkan (which I actively study) so I'll exact a sort of bias towards it...even though it's the only truly effective defense I've seen for a wide variety of throws, in its simplicity.

I know what works, and I know what won't. This works amazingly.