Technique in swordsmanship

[Fenris]

There is already an "honor in swordplay" thread but i think the meaning kinda got lost in the scramble. So here we are, and I guess I should start.

Swordsmanship is probably one of the oldest ways to kill a person that man has ever invented, probably only predated by sticks,rocks, and fists. As such it stands to reason that man has had alot of time to gather data on the finer points of such a deadly art. Many schools/styles/systems have been developed, most of the western martial arts died out with the invention of the gun, so that most people only see the oriental and eastern styles of swordplay, however some are still kept alive. Before you use a sword you must first understand how it is built.


(BASIC BUILD)

Most swords are divided into 3 parts. (Some systems break this apart even further and maintain as many as 9 parts, but for all intents and purposes three should be enough to understand the concept.) The 3 parts consist of the end, the middle, and the hilt. The upper, middle, and lower parts of a blade respectively. Depending on the style of sword, it is possible to alter the seperate functions or attributes of the pieces but commonly these are the portions of a blade that matter.


(DEFENSE)

As such the three seperate parts of a blade all have differing amounts of strength, the highest being weakest, and the lowest being strongest. This is due to the balance of weight that is made into the sword, the bottom portion must be heavier to support the blade and make sure it is secure, and being closer to the handle it is much faster and more effective to focus ones strength and channel it into the lower portion than it is for one to utilize the higher point of the sword. Thus the lower the point of contact a defending swordsman blocks with in relation to his opponents offending blade, the more effective the defenders parry. This can also allow a skilled swordfighter to alter or lead his opponents own blade and strikes with the proper distribution of his blades weight and posistioning in contrast to his opponents.

Keep in mind this is also a double edged sword (no pun intended) and that a skilled opponent can just as easily make use of this as you can. Also keep in mind that the weight and size of a sword when defending is very important you cant very well block a claymore with a rapier, nor can you stop a falchion with a katana. (at least not without making certain adjustments.) This rule can be bent however, if one can utilize the previously mentioned physical configuration in proportion to their opponents intended trajectory. (IE deflecting, blows.) Also keep in mind when parrying that traditionally one uses the flat end of ones sword, in real life duels, two swords going at each other edge on edge was apt to break both of them. Footwork is also important especially in battles where two fighters are using different swords. With the proper use of footwork one can maintain an evasive presence, or a highly offensive one. For instance when someone wielding a smaller blade is conflicting with someone using a larger one, the smaller one can gain a distinct advantage by moving the combat into extremely close quarters and hounding the enemy not giving them any room to swing their sword, while making use of their smaller blade to still maintain an offensive presence.



Finally in defense, ones stance is important, make sure your blade is well posistioned in respect to you're opponents possible avenues of attacks. Dont go for something just cause it looks cool or flashy. (IE a certain stance favored by anime fans which twists a long blade behind their arm underhanded, not going to work very well unless your using a knife.)

(OFFENSE)

Now when one understands how to make use of the divided nature of weight in swordsmanship, one can use it for offensive purposes as well defensive ones. In freeform Roleplay initial melee attacks rarely if ever work, the bread butter of a good melee fighter is their ability to counter. What is a counter first? A counter is an attack designed to pre-empt an enemies offensive maneuver, or nullify and then make use of it to fuel your offensive. When one understands this, they can utilize their understanding of the blades makeup to to tip odds in their favor. When parrying or defending, make use of a defensive measure that not only keeps you from losing a vital organ, but also leaves your opponent's guard open in the worst way. Not only will this make you better at offense, but it will help keep your opponent under control since they'll have to defend giving you time to gain dominion. When countering afew good targets to keep in mind are. The waist, the thighs, the shoulders, the arms, and the neck. (just to name a few) Also keep in mind when parrying, that its possible for you to try and manipulate where their blade ends up, and with proper planning this can make both a recovery or a counter on the part of you're opponent all the more difficult. Also certain sword strokes are better for different situations. If an opponent is going for a vertical chop, a linear thrust will most likely beat him to the punch, if you managed to block an opponents blade on the outside of your guard, and the inside of his, you can most likely bring your blade down onto his shoulder for that same vertical chop most likely before they can even recover from your defense, or even simply go for a thrust, or some of kind of ripost. Or if an opponent is moving a certain way, some sword strokes may be more effective than others.

Also just because you're wielding a sword, doesnt mean you should forget about the weapons you were born with. Grappling, and striking skills used in tandem with swordplay can be devastating to an unsuspecting opponent, most people totally stop thinking about things like kicks, elbows, and throws as soon as their sword leaves their sheathe. A devious sneaky strike, or a snaky grab for you're opponents sword arm can save you're characters life in some situations. But also dont forget stakes are higher in weapon fights, and carelessly throwing your leg or arm out when the situation doesnt call for it can get your character an amputation quicker than kimbo slice fell out of MMA.

(FEINTING)

Feinting is tricky especially in freeform roleplay. Its easy for someone to say "Harhar i tricked u it waz a shadow clone!!1" but it can be done. Most effectively it is best used when one is attacking with one weapon and concealing another. An example would be. (1)"Opponent A, attacks with his sword in his right hand, at opponents B's temple." (2) "Opponent B parries with his left hand, and then thrusts at Opponent A's abdomen" (3) "As opponent B parried, Opponent A had moved further right or to his opponents left, while simultaneously drawing a second sword under opponent' B's outstretched aiming to amputate it in the same motion as the draw." This is an extremely simplified version but other factors could play into such a feint as well. (things such as movement, and armour, etc.) Typically it might be considered "Good form" to give your opponent some sort of "hint" that you are about to feint, though dont spell it out for them and its really more of a guide line. It can also be done with a single weapon, but must be carefully worded so it doesnt look like you simply changed your original intention. Its better to try and predict your enemies defense and come up with a plan that will specefically make use of it. For instance. (1) "Opponent A swings his sword towards opponent B's neck in a right to left swipe." (2) "Opponent B lifts his blade to the right intending to parry at the hilt" (3) Opponent A utilizes the weight of his opponents parry and places his hand on the pommel of his blade using the force of it to turn his sword into an opposing revolution aimed at the opposite side of his opponents neck while moving around him in the same direction" (Once again very simple, and arguably simply just a parry, unless one starts the change in mid-swing as opposed to utilizing their opponents attack but there just basic examples.)

(IN TANDEM)

Once one has a good understanding of Offensive, Defensive, and Guile concepts, one can use them together effectively as mentioned before. When one parries, he/she does so already preparing himself for his/her offense, when one engages an enemy, he makes it easier for himself to attack while frustrating and evading his/her enemy, making him/her have to work to simply get a chance to attack. When attacking, make use of space, and preparation, posistion yourself to attack, while using that same posistion to make it harder for your enemy to follow suit, or even defend for that manner. Blend defensive, and offensive concepts together so that they transcend both and hybridize making yourself more fluid, and versatile. Keep in mind that even enemies attacking with different weapons. (IE Polearms and spears etc) have their own weapon physics, that can be utilized to your advantage if you know how.

[Fenris]

also anyone wanting to add or ask something is free too.

[Fenris]

It's been a while since i've added onto this. I've learned more since my previous post. I am going to give a brief explanation of a new technique I have learned.


The Krumphau (German for "Crooked hew") is an extremely versatile maneuver that I've been making use of. It involves bring the blade vertically across ones body similar to the movement of a "windshield wiper" and can be used in a variety of ways against different attacks. The most basic use of it is to step off the line of a thrust as it comes in while bringing your own sword across you're body so that as the opponent steps into his thrust, you will be off the line, but you're blade will be brought across to strike at the opponents wrist/forearm. A good technique for literally "disarming" someone. It can also be used as a parry and is most effective against thrusts and "Oberhau" (Over head strokes, IE downward vertical strokes.) It can also break the guard of "Ox" and afew others (Refer to thread Helpful sites for information on Ox and other stances.) When utilized as a parry the Krumphau can cause devastating overextentions of the opponents weapon and leave them wide open for attack. The best stances in my oppinion to use the krumphau from are Middle guard, Longtail/Side, Plow, and Iron door, as well as a vertical Ox which would leave the blade vertical, with the crossguard level with ones ear.

[baane]

Jun 24, 2009 18:59:57 GMT -7 Fenris said:

Swordsmanship is probably one of the oldest ways to kill a person that man has ever invented,

Not even close.

probably only predated by sticks,rocks, and fists.

There were plenty of tools invented before the invention of the metallic sword. Stone knives, spears, slings - all of these have a use outside of military power, which the sword does not. They, then, came first.

Many schools/styles/systems have been developed, most of the western martial arts died out with the invention of the gun,

Not even close. The Arquebus hit the scene in the 15th century AD and melee combat remained a crucial part of warfare right up until the mid 17th century, if not later. Past that, combat techniques were still being developed for personal use. Recent history has seen a reemergence of interest in western martial arts and it's getting easier and easier to find material concerning it.

There just aren't any hip anime shows glorifying western arts.

[Styles]

Aug 26, 2010 11:18:41 GMT -7 baane said:

There just aren't any hip anime shows glorifying western arts.

Got to say it before me.

[Fenris]

Baane, many western martial arts were indeed forgotten as soon as guns came into the picture. Not to say that they all died out when guns became a factor, like Savate I believe was also developed in the 17-1800's but I could be wrong. Regardless comparing Savate and other modern western martial arts to the original ones that were practical when mass melee combat was still a factor is almost impossible due to the fact many of those arts were forgotten and are just now being rediscovered thus proving my point, even so many western martial arts that survived past he age of the gun are almost exclusively grappling/hand to hand based, and maybe some for sticks and knives, as opposed to the eastern ones which have almost fully survived even despite their modern impracticality. (IE Kendo.) The only sword tradition in the western world that was actually well known and still used up until recently was fencing.

I also was a little broad in my earlier statement saying that swords are the oldest ways of killing someone. What I should have stated is that bladed weapons in general are among the oldest way to kill someone.

[Styles]

Just to settle any beef with how martial arts is interpeted by date, and utilization....

Some traditional martial concepts have seen new use within modern military training. Perhaps the most recent example of this is 'point shooting' which relies on muscle memory to more effectively utilize a firearm in a variety of awkward situations, much the way an iaidoka would master movements with their sword. (wonderful example of how martial arts was never forgotten in any hemisphere)

It's still the exact same thing, but given a different name. A rose by any other name...is still a rose. Taking Martial Arts out of it's traditional element and utilizing it because the world has assimilated to it technology....does not make the training and conditioning required any less valuable, or less useful.

During the World War II era William E. Fairbairn, a British police officer working in Shanghai and a leading Western expert on Asian fighting techniques, was recruited by the Special Operations Executive (SOE) to teach Jujutsu to U.K., U.S. and Canadian Special Forces. This fighting method was called Defendu. The book 'Kill or Get Killed', written by Colonel Rex Applegate, was based on defendu taught by Sykes and Fairburn. Both Fairburn's 'Get Tough and Kill or get killed' became classics of military treatise on hand-to-hand combat.

Traditional hand-to-hand, knife, and spear techniques continue to see use in the composite systems developed for today's wars. Examples of this include European Unifight, the US Army's Combatives system developed by Matt Larsen, the Israeli army trains its soldiers in kapap and Krav Maga, and the US Marine Corps's Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP).

Unarmed dagger defenses identical to that found in the manual of Fiore dei Liberi and the Codex Wallerstein were integrated into the U.S. Army's training manuals in 1942 and continue to influence today's systems along with other traditional systems such as Eskrima.

The rifle-mounted bayonet, which has its origin in the spear, has seen use by the United States Army, the United States Marine Corps, and the British Army as recently as the Iraq War.


However....you're not totally incorrect.

Martial arts existed in classical European civilization, most notably in Greece where sports were integral to the way of life. Boxing (pygme, pyx), Wrestling (pale) and Pankration (from pan, meaning "all", and kratos, meaning "power" or "strength") were represented in the Ancient Olympic Games. The Romans produced gladiatorial combat as a public spectacle.

A number of historical fencing forms and manuals have survived, and many groups are working to reconstruct older European martial arts. The process of reconstruction combines intensive study of detailed combat treatises produced from 1400–1900 A.D. and practical training or "pressure testing" of various techniques and tactics. This includes such styles as sword and shield, two-handed swordfighting, halberd fighting, jousting and other types of melee weapons combat. This reconstruction effort and modern outgrowth of the historical methods is generally referred to as Western martial arts. Many medieval martial arts manuals have survived, primarily from Germany and Italy. The most famous of these is Johannes Lichtenauer's Fechtbuch (Fencing book) of the 14th century, which today forms the basis of the German school of swordsmanship.

In Europe, the martial arts declined with the rise of firearms. As a consequence, martial arts with historical roots in Europe do not exist today to the same extent as in other regions, since the traditional martial arts either died out or developed into sports. Swordsmanship developed into fencing. Boxing as well as forms of wrestling have endured. European martial arts have mostly adapted to changing technology so that while some traditional arts still exist, military personnel are trained in skills like bayonet combat and marksmanship. Some European weapon systems have also survived as folk sports and as self-defense methods. These include stick-fighting systems such as quarterstaff of England, bataireacht of Ireland, Jogo do Pau of Portugal and the Juego del Palo (Palo Canario) style(s) of the Canary Islands.


It's wonderful how citations work so well when trying to prove a point, even at the cost of a double standard.

Now then, as far as the oldest way to kill someone...Martial arts does it best, and plain old bludgeoning someone to death predates even that. A hand is a hand is a hand, and when used right, it can kill someone. Since there's no sound theory, and history is always written from the winner's perspective, let us conclude at this....

You get punched hard enough, you can die.

You get Stabbed, you can die.

You get shot, you can die.

Combat as a sport, imo, should never utiliza melee weaponry. It's senseless, and to a degree teaches the wrong effects of the weapon being used. save combat sports and combat martail arts for UNARMED combat. It's more entertaining and certainly build to a better climax.

[Fenris]

Like I said the old forms of combat such as swordsmanship, using an axe, spear etc were impractical after guns came into the picture. I never said all european martial arts were forgotten, I think I stated somewhat that things like sword and shield etc is no longer practical and no longer taught in military for practical purposes. I never contested that some martial arts were never forgotten or even evolved after the firearm, my point rested solely on the fact that you dont see marines going into battle with Zweihanders and halberds.

That being said im sure that their are plenty of martial arts that are still in practical use by modern militaries their just not very likely to incorporate weapons like spears, swords, maces, axes, polearms, etc for obvious reasons. Therefore for the most part the western methods were mostly forgotten up until recently and are still being rediscovered. Not all were forgotten but most of the "heavy" stuff you were taught for battle was. That was the only point I was trying to illustrate.

[Styles]

And you did a much better job this time around. Thank you ;D